Movement for Every Body: Play, Power, and Pole With Dr. Marcia Dernie, DPT
Show Notes:
Welcome back to another episode of Science of Slink!
This week Dr. Rosy Boa sits down with Dr. Marcia Dernie and talks about all things movement, play, and pole. Dr. Marcia is a DPT, yoga teacher, powerlifter, and strongwoman. Marcia and Rosy discuss how embracing play fosters emotional regulation, social connection, and self-expression. They highlight the importance of community in movement practices, including how working out with others can enhance consistency and motivation. Marcia shares practical tips for strengthening your vestibular system through balance exercises, eye gaze training, and spinning practice. Plus, they discuss how vestibular health can vary based on life stages, like menopause or postpartum recovery.
Take care of your vestibular system! Incorporate balance exercises, try eye-gaze training, and don’t shy away from spinning practice. And rediscover the joy of play, connect with a supportive community, and embrace movement as a path to wellness. Don’t forget to share this episode with someone who inspires your movement journey!
Connect with Dr. Marcia:
Resources Mentioned:
Dr. Marcia Dernie’s book:
“Movement for Every Body”
Use code “BODY” for 35% off and free shipping (ends 12/31)
https://www.northatlanticbooks.com/shop/movement-for-every-body/
Flying through pregnancy: https://www.spincityinstructortraining.com/product/flying-pregnancy-paperback/
Yoga for Pelvic Floor and Postpartum Health
https://www.northatlanticbooks.com/shop/yoga-for-pelvic-floor-and-postpartum-health/amp/
Vestibular Eye Gaze Exercises
https://ahc.aurorahealthcare.org/fywb/x20521.pdf
Transcript:
Rosy: Welcome to Science at Slink. Very excited about today's guest. We've been chatting back and forth for a while. I'm familiar with your work from I know we talked about, I think we talked about the deconstructing the fitness industrial complex on the episode where we had Teresa from Reimagym.
So if you haven't listened to that, we've mentioned it there. You don't have to listen to that one first though. So. But it is Dr. Marcia who is DPT, yoga instructor also does powerlifting and strong women, both I, I understand also, you know, spoonie, disabled, and you may also know from disabled girls who lift. I think we have a lot of shared interests, but I think it would be helpful for folks to start by hearing a little bit more about you, your background and your, your relationship to movement in general.
And perhaps if you're interested in sharing a pole specifically.
Marcia: Sure. Dr. Marcia here, she, they I am a physical therapist, been a doctor physical therapist for a solid decade. [00:01:00] And I see all ages, all Sorts of backgrounds abilities. And then I myself have chronic illnesses that I deal with.
I wasn't born with them. They came out of nowhere after I started PT school. So that really started shaping the way I thought about moving and enjoyed movement way differently. Unfortunately, medical. Health care is very us versus them. It's very, you know, anything bad happens to somebody must be their fault.
So I did a lot of unpacking, unlearning and rewiring when it comes to movement and things that are in our control and things that are aren't. That's called healthism, by the way, like everything is not individually in our control stuff. Oh, I did have a question. Can we curse?
Rosy: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Marcia: Yeah, shit happens.
So we can't, everything isn't our fault. You can do everything right, right? Whatever you consider to be right, eating vegan, going to church every Sunday or, you know, exercising an hour every day and something you could still get hit by a truck. You could [00:02:00] still have a history of Alzheimer's in your family.
Like it's not, it's not a moral failing to be unwell. So that's something I had to unlearn and unpack. And so I just take that with me in my movement and I do whatever feels good. So my current season feeling good. I have not done a powerlifting meat competition in a while. I've done a strongman competition locally here in Richmond just for funsies, but I just fell into actually Lindy hop swing, dancing, and pole dancing.
Literally just, I never thought about it. I just walked by and the swing dancing popped up on my feed and then the. Pole dancing. I just walked by kinky cardio on an art walk. And I was like, Hmm, this sounds like fun. And so I did it. That's how I'm approaching life these days. And that's what I really encourage most people to do.
It's not punishment. It's not to earn calories. It's not to look a certain way. It's not the gain in ability. It's for fun. [00:03:00] We're just playing.
Rosy: I think that's such a great ethos to, to bring to movement in general. And Kinky Cardio by the way, they're a studio that's local here to Richmond, where I am.
I think that also the, the shifts that you were talking about. This can be a challenging discovery for some folks, and my hope for everyone is that we can all do the work to unpack these feelings before it becomes critical that we address them. But that, you know, I think a lot of it comes back to Puritanism, right?
That idea that like, if you do enough good health works, you'll be fine. You can magically be healthy forever, and anyone who is unhealthy is obviously their fault, and like, that's a way that you can construct your worldview to make yourself feel safe and I think it's just built, unfortunately, on a foundation of inaccurate beliefs about bodies but, you know, once you take away that, like, I am exercising to stay fit forever, right?
Be like a super healthy 90 year old. And that's my plan. And I'm going to get there by, [00:04:00] by being quote unquote good. Then, you know, why do you move? Why do you move? If you're not, you know, putting quote money in the bank in terms of your health. Well,
Marcia: that's a chore.
Rosy: Yeah, absolutely.
Marcia: Well, the, the foundation of, of all of those things, and that's something that's talked about in the deconstructing book. And it's something that I start my book off with, because if, if we're not talking about it, then that was a useless discussion. But the foundation is white supremacy, honestly, because they said, this is the ideal body.
Tall, able bodied, thin, white, European looking man. Period. And so, anything that diverts from that has to have a reason it must be wrong. Right? So, this is why everybody has stereotypes. And if you're disabled, it's because you're lazy, you didn't eat right, you drank too much soda, da da da da da da. Like, even diabetes.
People still think that. Diabetes is 100 percent within your control and caused by your choices, you [00:05:00] know what I mean? But that's where that comes from. They have to tell us something is wrong with what's not the ideal so we can keep striving for the ideal because not only is it profitable. It also keeps us in control because now we're busy thinking about how do I get there instead of just frolicking?
Rosy: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Bringing, bringing frolicking mentality to your, your movement practice.
Marcia: Yeah. Frolic like a motherfucker.
Rosy: Absolutely. And just really quickly before we move on, I know it's not like your sort of central focus anymore, but I think folks might be interested. What's the difference between strong man slash strong woman and power lifting for folks who are maybe like this, those sound cool.
I'd like to be strong.
Marcia: Sure. So we're talking about the general realm of strength sports. So we could call those strength sports, right? So there could be something like CrossFit, which is barbell high intensity, more like, I don't want to call it hit, but it's like cardio endurance, you know, picture sweaty, sweaty, out of breath CrossFit.
Right. And then you have power lifting, which is [00:06:00] barbell only. You don't move. It's in one spot. Squat your bench, your deadlift, that's it. And you try to lift as much as you can at the competition. You don't have to compete. You could just lift and feel strong and be strong and choose variations that carry over to pole, honestly.
And then strong man or strong woman, strong person is kind of a combination of both of those. And so. Historically speaking, it could be anything. So it could be pulling a truck. It could be carrying rocks. It could be rope pulls. It could be there's this apparatus called a yoke, which is just like. A metal bar in the shape of an H, and for some reason we stand under it and carry weight.
It's just, it's just dumb stuff. Like, it's just great. It's awesome. So that one is kind of a combination of both because you do need just raw strength and you also need some sort of endurance or power. I'm going to say power, not [00:07:00] endurance. You need power because all of the things are explosive quick for the most part and lots of fun.
So I switched from. Powerlifting, powerlifting is a lot of fun, but you do have a very precise, specific way of training and kind of forever. Strong man has a little more variety if you want to compete because every competition, they just make it up. They just tell you what's going to happen. Like one competition, they might be like, we're going to deadlift a car.
The next competition, they might be like, we're going to throw balls over a 12 foot thing. Like it's. It's a lot of fun. And then generally speaking, it, more of these sports are popular and more places have gyms that are not just like you fits and not that I think there's anything wrong with those, but the kind of gyms that you have to go to, to really strain for a strong man is a specific kind of gym.
And more of those exist. Sometimes they're in the back of CrossFits. But more of the standalone, we'll just call them like strength gyms. We'll [00:08:00] call it you fit a planet fitness, a commercial gym. There's more standalone gyms. They will be pricier. I'll tell you that up front. It will be pricier, but it is a lot of fun.
It's worth, it's worth diving into. And then if barbells are not your thing, you could swing kettlebells. You could do that instead. If that's not your thing, that's fine. No shade, no tea, no drama. It's okay.
Rosy: I'm a, I'm a big fan of kettle balls, especially for, for home training. And I think it's great cross training for pole because it is, you know, power, strength, and endurance.
And usually, usually you're not well. I'm not doing kettlebells for, you know, half an hour straight, no break. I'm doing like shorter intensity, three to five minutes, like right in that time range where you're going to be doing pole stuff. So I think it's particularly good for, for cardiovascular endurance.
Cause we don't listen. We don't always do a lot of cardio in pole. It depends. Sometimes we can, but yeah. Yeah.
Marcia: And kettlebell could be good too. Cause you can kind of get out of. [00:09:00] Of you can get into some awkward angles with kettlebell, which you need to train for bowl.
Rosy: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah,
Marcia: kettlebells are a great option.
Rosy: Yeah, great for dealing with instability as well which is and it's interesting because we I talk about this quite a bit folks who've been my student. No, I talk about it a lot, but unlike in the other aerial stuff, we can never be right under the point. So there's always a degree of asymmetry in our movement.
Almost always. There's like a couple things where we can be perfectly symmetrical. I'm not saying you shouldn't do like, you know, a bunch of perfectly symmetrical barbell lifts but if specifically you're cross training for pole, I think, you know, working more unilaterally, working where there's some additional instability if you have access to cables, cable machines are great would be, I think, more relevant for, for pole and cross training, but.
Marcia: Oh yeah. I mean, if you want to get into the weeds, there's lots of different ways to train with a barbell. You can do like landmine stuff and do rotational movements. You know, you could do. Single leg lunges. The possibilities are endless.
Rosy: Absolutely.
Marcia: [00:10:00] But kettlebells are more accessible in terms of, if you just wanted to do something at home really quick, you don't want to do membership, kettlebells would probably be more accessible.
Rosy: Yeah, absolutely. Has also been my, my experience. Like I don't have barbells at home, but I do have a, have a couple of kettlebells, so. Thinking about you know, specifically powerlifting, strongman, things where. Well, I guess Strongman, you're more like competing against other people in the specific things.
To me, it's always had like a little bit of a, this is not pejorative, but kind of like county fair kind of feel. It's like, where you get all the strongest people in this area. We're going to see who can take home the live turkey. Oh,
Marcia: it's, it's very hoo rah. And I mean, power, powerlifting, sometimes they get a little hype, but Strongman is like, you're going to lose your voice.
It's a, it's a spectacle. Yes. It's a great
Rosy: word.
Marcia: Yeah. It's a spectacle. But speaking of County fair, what, what really is a County fair is [00:11:00] Highland games. I did that once they will literally have that in the middle of like a Scottish fair. Like that's just a part of it.
Rosy: 100%. Yeah, my my background is Scottish.
My my cousin. Oh, nice. The caber toss in her state when she was in high school. So yeah, Highland fairs are fantastic.
Marcia: Yeah, I did it once. It was a lot of fun. It's not great for my, personally, I have unstable shoulders, so I was like, that's cool. Never again, but it was fun.
Rosy: It is. It is. And I was a farm kid, but like, especially like the bale toss, that's functional.
You need to toss bales all the time. Yeah, but what I was thinking about is powerlifting. So this is, I'm, I'm drawing a parallel here with pole . Powerlifting, right? I think that like with a lot of polers, a lot of people get into weightlifting you see that sort of switch from like, I'm not thinking just about how my body looks, but what I can do, right?
And my ability. Yes. And I think it can be, you know, Beneficial to not [00:12:00] necessarily completely focused on aesthetics. I mean, unless you're, you know, doing bodybuilding, in which case that's kind of the thing that you are doing, there's obviously an aesthetic angle to pole, but I think the dark side of switching to that focus on ability and like, I feel good about myself because I can do all these cool things and I'm learning new things and I'm making progress, right.
You know, I'm seeing my, my numbers go up. If I'm powerlifting I'm learning all these new tricks is if that's what your identity is, if that's what gives you your sense of like satisfaction and self worth, what happens when that stops happening, right? What happens when you plateau? What happens when you get injured?
What happens when you become disabled, right? Cause we're all going to become disabled at some point. We're all temporarily abled. So it's going to happen and what happens to you then, right? And I think this is a journey that you in particular have been on in your life. So do you want to speak on that?
Marcia: Absolutely. And that is a great, great, great, great point. I will say when, when talking about barbell stuff, I forgot to talk about Olympic weightlifting. [00:13:00] That's a whole different set of movements. That's something different, but you also stay in one place. That's really great for explosive and power and all that good stuff.
Anyways but back to the question. So when it comes to movement, so we already got away from, all right, we're not going to tie this to aesthetics, but then you might shift to ability and that's not as great. And I can say that in all of Things that I've taken part in, I can see where that has failed people.
So in power lifting, for example, somebody might have a meet, you know, they didn't sleep well. They had a food poisoning, something happens. And then now they feel embarrassed. They're at the competition crying because they didn't get their squats. They leave. And then they put a whole essay monologue soliloquy on their Instagram about it.
And then like, Cry for a week and then they lose followers and that makes them even sadder. And then it's just like, girl, what are you doing? But I've also seen that in pole. [00:14:00] I've seen that in pole where somebody has come and they're a part of the community. They're in the group chat. We're taking classes and then they disappear.
And then they come back expecting to be able to do the same thing. And then they can't. And then they disappear. Well, I, you know, I'm just not seeing any progress and I just don't want to do this anymore. Same shit. Like what, what is the progress? What do you mean by that? Because if you mean you're not seeing progress in achieving a physical movement, like you, you gotta do the movement to get it right.
You have to have the capacity for the movement to get it. So like, logically speaking, that doesn't make sense. So what is the progress? That things didn't go well for you? Is that what you're actually measuring as progress? That things always move forward? Cause that's dumb too. Like, that's a silly thing to do.
So tying to aesthetics [00:15:00] and tying to the idea of everything is always up, you're just setting yourself up for failure. Not success. whatsoever. So yeah, it is, you have to be very mindful about, like you said earlier, so why are you moving? What is it for then? Because if it's a chore, like, you could do something cheaper.
You can go run outside for free, okay? So why are you here?
Rosy: Yeah, I think that's a great question. And I think that you know, everyone's answer is going to be different, but we've talked about like three things that , I think neither of us would recommend people uses their focus. So like strictly I got to learn new stuff.
I got to constantly be getting better. I don't win things. Right. Line goes, you know, up into the right. Infinite growth, capitalist mind worms. That's, that's going to betray you. That will betray you sooner or later. Focus on aesthetics, right? Like usually aesthetic appeal includes being young. Listen, you're going to age again.
That will betray [00:16:00] you. And then focus on sort of like, if I'm healthy enough, if I do enough, good behaviors, I will be rewarded with good health. And again, that's, that's what That's going to betray you as well, right? Like your, your body will not always be perfectly healthy. That is not a reasonable expectation to have of yourself and it's going to make, when inevitably you have health issues, it's going to make them worse because you're also going to feel like they're your fault and you're going to blame yourself and then you're going to have the emotional component on top of the physical component.
You're not going to be able to, really focus on taking care of yourself because you're too busy being mad at yourself, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So those are three things that I think both of us would be like, not the best motivation, maybe. Don't do that! Don't be mean to yourself! Drop it! But, given that, okay, so those are like the don'ts, what are some of the do's?
What are the things that like, you're like, yeah, this is a sustainable motivation that I would recommend. I think you've already brought up one, which is frolicking. Right. Having a good time.
Marcia: I'm just here for the vibes. [00:17:00] Yeah. And, and so it, this is something else I talk about in, in my book. Like sometimes you might have something that is just for the vibes and sometimes you might need to do chores for the vibes.
Right. So like for pole, like it's just for fun, but I'm going to have to do some boring stuff to make sure I could still do it safely. Like that both of those things exist. That's fine. But the ultimate end game is you. I want to have some fun. So yeah, frolicking in the same vein, just release, right.
Something that you can just use as expression, whether it's like artistic expression or just working through emotions that are living in your body. But I kind of put that in the same categories for all. Okay. Yeah.
Rosy: Yeah. I think for me, those are, I tend to approach those slightly differently.
because I have burned myself out very badly in the past. And so for me [00:18:00] there is like a functional component of like, mental health, self care, and wellness. And if any, if any of y'all are struggling with burnout, I'd recommend the book Breaking the Burnout Cycle which talks about like a lot of research on burnout.
And one of the things is like, if you have like a big cortisol spike and you're like, we're threatened, we're threatened, you have to do something. move your body to help yourself be like, okay, we've dealt with the threat and sort of move through that process. And then of course, just fun and enjoyment and feeling good, which is like an important thing that you need in your life.
Pleasure is important. Like this is we were talking about this in class the other day and almost no one had, had heard of this, but if you happen to have a clitoris, if the clitoris receives no stimulation whatsoever it atrophies. It disappears, basically.
Marcia: Don't use it, you lose it.
Rosy: Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, our capacity for pleasure is a thing that we can lose in a very real physical sense
Marcia: The way that I framed the frolicking too, it comes from one, I work with all ages. Yes. I work with kids and then also comes with a conversation that.
A [00:19:00] line that somebody brought up at one of my book events, it was at a bookstore, just like open discussion, and we had a similar conversation to this, and one person raised their hand and they were like, everything that we're talking about right now, didn't we should just call this play? Like, weren't we just kids and they just opened the door and said, do something?
And we did. And that's true. We're just playing. We're just playing y'all. And then the thing is about plays that it is very functional for kids. Kids learn social skills in play. Kids learn emotional regulation in play. They learn, you know, it's my turn. It's your turn. We wait, we take turns. Oh, she's hurt.
She looks sad. How do I approach this? Or, oh, I like the way my body feels on this swing. I don't like the way it feels on that. Like, it is functional. You are learning through play. You're expressing through play. You're emoting. You're going through all of the things freely. And there's not really much of a format for that in our lives, right?
It's work, make money. It's school study. It's good. It's even driving, right? Get [00:20:00] to the place. Let's go beyond time. We're late. It's rush hour. Hurry up. There's very little time. There's very zero, zero containers built into capitalism for just open the door and go play. And so when I say like frolic, when I say, you know, we're just playing, we're just hanging out, we're here for vibes.
Like, that's the picture that I have. Like you got your four year old daughter, nephew, cousin, whatever. And you're like, this kid needs to go play outside. Let's go. That's what I'm talking about. Like we need to go, let's go have some fun.
Rosy: Yeah. 100%. 100 percent play. Yeah. Super, super powerful. Super good for us. And yeah, especially as we're adults, it's
Marcia: harder to monetize. It's hard. And that's the thing. Cause even when people are talking about, Oh, you need self care. Oh, you need self care. And what do we think of things that cost money?
Rosy: There's a list of things to buy. Yeah. A couple of points you brought up there really stand out to me. And one [00:21:00] is the social aspect, right? The community. And I think that can be another really powerful motivation. I think you also, you mentioned it, right? Like you're in your group chat with your movement friends and you have this, identity and community and belonging that, you know, humans are social creatures.
We're not like bees, but we are social. And having, you know, movement be part of that socialization and having it be a place, a third place, perhaps where you can connect with others about something that is a shared interest is also really powerful and motivating. And I keep, Maybe you know this one.
There's a study that showed the people who started a new movement program with someone else stayed with it like 10 times longer. And I don't have a citation for that cause I can't find the dang study. And this may be one of those like gray literature, somebody heard a citation, heard a citation.
But certainly we work out more consistently and more vigorously actually, if we are working out with others, even if there isn't like a competition component, right? [00:22:00] Feels better to go a little bit harder if you're not by yourself. For most people, it seems to be the case. There's probably individual variation there.
Marcia: Right. Yeah. I was just actually so my book has a twin. My book Movement for Everybody came out the same day Live Nourished came out. And so that one talks about nutrition, diet, culture. And it's funny because just yesterday I listened to the second chapter and there's a part where she talks about healthism.
You know, the idea that individual choices. 100 percent define your health. But she was also talking about, there was a study with diabetes that showed that people's A1Cs were more controlled if they had a good support system, if they had a good social network, not even talking about diet, not even talking about weight, not even talking about BMI, which is a joke.
It just social socialization as a human having community
was, was it. And, and she like actually called it a health behavior, like a good health behavior. So that's very real. [00:23:00]
Rosy: Yeah, a hundred percent. I know there's been I don't know. I'd say maybe like the past couple of decades a much bigger interest in social determinants of health. And I don't know, social scientists get a lot of flack and as someone who's trained as a social scientist it's really a lot of people and their connections to other people are actually a meaningful, tangible thing that's important.
And I, yes, seriously,
Marcia: seriously.
Rosy: I talk about a couple other studies sort of relating to this in the episode I did about motivation and pole dance, because one of the things I was like is don't do it alone. Have a people's one, one or more that you can connect with, particularly if you're working at home.
Right. So you can have that that support.
Marcia: Yeah. And it's always nice to have people have video up because sometimes we get a little overly critical.
Rosy: Yes.
Marcia: It's good to have somebody to be like, be quiet. That was great. Relax. Simmer down. Take it down a notch. You look great. [00:24:00] Or you'll get it next time. It's not that serious.
It's always good to have one of those in your corner.
Rosy: Yeah, absolutely.
Marcia: Absolutely.
Rosy: The other thing that you mentioned that sort of like sparked something is you mentioned playing on the swings. And I know And when I first reached out, we were chatting about the vestibular system a little bit.
Super important for pole. I mean, super important for your life, but I would say that the stresses that pole places on your vestibular system are greater than the, the general just sort of walking around doing Western, industrialized, educated. Whatever R stands for democracy stuff. Yeah. This term for psychology, weird.
I've always forget what the R stands for. Anyway, R yeah. Yeah. So do you want to talk a little bit about a, what is the vestibular system? B what sort of like. What general you know, stuff can you do that is good and or bad perhaps for it? Sure. Anything else you want to bring up? [00:25:00]
Marcia: Sure. Sure. Sure.
So first the, what is the vestibular system? So we don't really have to get into the weeds of the anatomy to understand what's happening there. We really don't. It's just, the concept is there's fluid in your inner ear and that tells your body whether or not you're upright. Thanks. That is really it.
That's the simple part of it. And so it sounds like witchcraft. It really does. It sounds weird. But the example that I give is, well, have you ever been on a boat and then you get off the boat and all of a sudden you feel weird? Why is that? Or, you know, do you ever read your phone while you're in a bumpy car ride and now you're nauseous?
Why is that? Well, that's your vestibular system. And so everything in our bodies operates checks and balances, feedback systems, nothing by itself. So your vestibular system is specifically speaking to your inner ear and the nerves and whatever that connects to that and the feedback. It connects to the muscles that hold you [00:26:00] upright.
But what gives that information? So we have different things that gives that information, your actual position of your joints. where they are in space. So that joint sense is called proprioception. So can you, whether, you know, if you close your eyes and you just, you're just standing somewhere, can you tell, Oh yeah, my right foot's on the carpet.
My pinky toes kind of hanging off the rug. You know, that's proprioception. Oh, my, my thumb is pointing up. That's proprioception. So that information feeds into your vestibular. The other thing that feeds into it is vision. What are you looking at? And so that's why when you get off a boat, You get a little wobbly because the right, the horizon was moving and your vision said, we're not moving.
And then your inner ear said, cool bet. Got it. I'll adjust. And then you got somewhere where the horizon stopped moving and your inner ear said, what the fuck? So that's, that's why some people get seasick and some people don't. Cause your vestibular is like, Hmm, 404 error. We don't, we don't got it boss. So [00:27:00] your vision feeds into your vestibular now.
When we're talking about vision, we're talking about acuity. Do you wear glasses? Your eyesight and actual the movement of your eye muscles. So vision and visual motor stuff. So if you need glasses, that's going to mess you up. So you might be a little more clumsy when it's low light, right? You might find you a little more clumsy when you are in sunglasses, right?
You might find things are a little weird when you go to the bathroom at 3 a. m. That's, that's, Your actual acuity, but we also have the motion of your eyes. So your eyes left, right, up, down, diagonal and inwards. If the actual muscles of your eyeballs. are not functioning well, that's also going to mess things up because you're not going to be viewing things well.
So, for example, some folks might have trouble going down steps because their eyeball doesn't turn the way it's supposed to turn to look down and say, these are where the [00:28:00] steps are, and then you take a tumble. That's also why steps are supposed to have clear lines on them. But anyways so there are different ways to work on all of those aspects.
Joint sense you can work on. Balance exercises, varying the surface that you're on, right? Maybe you're on something soft. Maybe you're standing on a leg. Maybe you're kneeling. Maybe you're holding something. And that could be worked into kettlebell work. That can be by itself. That could be pole warmups.
There's a lot of ways to work that in, but just think generally speaking balance. That's the joint sets. The vision wear glasses if you need them. That one's really simple, but the visual motor stuff, that's when you're going to get into eye gaze exercises. So if you just Google vestibular eye exercises, you'll find stuff, but generally speaking, it's going to be like staring at pens, moving the pen, moving your head is going to look like [00:29:00] witchcraft.
Again, but you just have to imagine in your brain that I'm looking at this pen back and forth and this is like bicep curls from my eyeballs. It's fucking stupid and weird, but it's real. Muscles move your eyes. You can train them. The only caveat I will put to those is that don't do that. That's your first time ever messing with it.
Don't do it when you have somewhere to be because it can make you nauseous or it can make you feel weird because what did, what did we say it affects the vestibular system? You're going to be changing information. And that might not feel so good. So don't do that for the first time, if you have somewhere to be.
And then in terms of actual spinning and whatnot, you just got to do it. There's nothing fancy about that at all. But learning the difference between the spins. Getting dizzy from your vestibular vertigo and those kind of symptoms. [00:30:00] Sorry. Or if your eyes aren't moving correctly, maybe if you spin after a while, your eyes kind of just like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
That's, that's your vestibular because your eyes just like, where the fuck are we? That is a room spinning dizziness. That is a, am I standing dizziness? That's how we're going to describe that. That is a, I don't know where my body is dizziness. Then there's that lightheaded dizziness, right? There's faintness.
There's like, I didn't eat enough today. I didn't drink enough today. Dizziness. Those are. Two separate things. So we do also have to figure out the difference there. Cause some folks do get confused and they're like, Oh yeah, I'm dizzy all the time. I just need to drink more water. And you're like, what kind bud?
Cause the water's not going to help vertigo. That's that one last caveat about that is like we said, it's the ear inner ear and. We may or may not know, ear, nose, and throat is connected. It's a whole bunch of tunnels and open spaces and holes [00:31:00] in your face. So, anything that is affecting your sinuses, your throat, your ear itself, can affect your vestibular system.
If you're somebody that gets slammed in allergy, in allergy season, like, You might get the spins more when you're poleing, right? If you're somebody who has just wonky ass periods, like I have wonky ass periods. Like I am so allergic to everything. The week of my period there's, I have sinus headaches, sinus migraines.
I'm going to be dizzier when I'm on the pole. So that's something else to keep in mind. If you got sick and you're stuffed up. It might get a little weird.
Yeah. Also, if you, if you fall off the pole and hit your head make sure you don't have a concussion, number one. And also that could make you knock some crystals out of your ear a little, a little, a lot of whack. Yeah.
Rosy: I've also I had a friend of mine who had He just like [00:32:00] rolled over, especially weird when he was sleeping, but like he woke up and the, you know, the crystals had moved around.
I had to do the, like the maneuver to get them back in. So if you have like sudden, like super acute vertigo, Hey, see a doctor, talk to a doctor.
Marcia: And sometimes it could be just, you know, a very clear cut thing. Like, like I just gave you examples, right? I'm on my period. I'm going to be more dizzy. It's allergy season. I have a cold. I have a cough. I'm more dizzy. I've never really done spinning before. I'm going to be more dizzy.
Sometimes it's just a fluke. We don't know why. And then sometimes we might even be unlucky enough that that is a lifelong condition. It's something we're just going to deal with, right? For some of us, it's a passing fleeting moment for some of us. It's always something to worry about. So see a doctor.
And physical therapists also help with that as well. Just make sure that when you seek out a physical therapist, they are familiar with vestibular work. That's all.
Rosy: I know you, you mentioned hormones. I've also noticed in [00:33:00] particular folks who are going through menopause, menipause, menopause or paramenopause There are
Marcia: many pauses, many times that you want to say what the fuck.
So many pauses make sense.
Rosy: Yes. Yes. Yes. Also be, you know, mess with your sense of location might get more dizzy. Or also, I mean, this could also be sort of like deconditioning vestibular adaptation, but folks who are coming back to pole after having had a child tend to need a little bit longer to get back in the spin of things as it were.
And that's just my, my observation from, from teaching.
Marcia: Oh, absolutely. I think, I mean, and this goes back to white supremacy, honestly, but I think we really undercut and undersell the event that is childbirth and pregnancy, your body. Is choosing the child every time, every time, every time you could lose teeth, you could lose hair like that, just because, you know, [00:34:00] some of us personally know people that have babies and things like just seem fine, like that's a lot happening.
And no matter what your body is like, we're going to make sure that baby lives. Fuck you. Like, so. Once that baby is gone out of your body, that's not over, right? You still got to beat, even if you're not actively able to breastfeed chest feed, like you're still a hundred percent, not sleeping through the night, dedicated to this baby.
So I think we really undercut the physical endeavor that is childbirth and pregnancy. Your body's going through it. You can have carpal tunnel just because of that. You can get diabetes just. Just because there's a baby in you so the vestibular having the spins as a part of that totally makes sense Your joints could be more unstable.
It just it's a huge event.
Rosy: Yes
Marcia: Yeah,
Rosy: that's something I think about a lot cross culturally is like how [00:35:00] many I shouldn't say all European cultures but the European cultures that you know became the core of global white colonialist supremacy don't really have like a idea of sequestration after pregnancy and childbirth.
And it's super common cross culturally in other places in the world. We just sort of like, you
Marcia: know,
Rosy: be, be a good little worker and go back to work. That, I don't see what the problem is.
Marcia: Yeah, I don't see what the problem is. Pop out the baby. Let's go. Keep moving.
Rosy: Yep.
Marcia: Let's go. Have another one. Are you gonna have another one?
You're gonna have another one? Just one? You're gonna have another one? They can't be alone. It's just, what do you mean? I just got here. Yeah, it's nuts. So yeah, if you are making an entire human from scratch, that's a huge endeavor. I don't care what society has taught you, man.
Rosy: And if you're you know, a pole dancer and currently pregnant or planning on becoming it or have [00:36:00] just been some resources that might be helpful for you in particular there's a book Flying Through Pregnancy that's, a lot of it's on Arial, but a lot of it's also on pole That's very helpful.
And then I think that's from Spin City. It's from bendy Kate's publisher. And then also there's a pole Mama's on Instagram, they talk a lot about like issues related to this specifically. So I would some good, good resources to check out.
Marcia: Yeah, definitely, definitely, there are, yeah, I know tons of PTs that do focus on pelvic health stuff, pelvic floor, which is not just restricted to pregnancy, by the way, if you have pain with sex, constipation, any of that, they can help with that. Also, there's a book. That came from my publisher. I can't remember who wrote it right now, but it's like yoga for pelvic floor, postpartum specifically.
So that could be a good resource as well.
Rosy: Yeah, definitely some good things to check out. And if you're, you know, Oh, you could just work, we talk about, you don't have to [00:37:00] exercise alone. You don't have to do things by yourself. You can, you can absolutely get support. And I know it can be a very isolating time.
And if you have capacity to get help, don't not do it. I don't know. That's my gentle, my gentle, you know, urge
Marcia: to you. It's a tough time. It's a tough time. Yeah. I mean, if you're in the position, That you are planning the endeavor, then that's amazing. Cause you can hopefully plan ahead and say, well, I know all the things I'm going to need and I know who I can ask for what and what I could work into it.
But you know, that's not the case for everybody, obviously.
Rosy: Well, I'm gonna make sure I'm respecting your time because I know you got a lot of stuff going on. And I want to make sure that folks know we've mentioned your book a couple times.
So do you wanna tell us a little [00:38:00] about your book and your podcast? And I know you've got like a great YouTube channel.
It has a lot of free resources for pole dancers in particular, there's a playlist on wrist and hand exercises I'd recommend, very relevant for us. But where can people find you and learn more?
Marcia: Sure. So I, my platforms are move with Marcia, so that is Instagram TikTok, YouTube threads and YouTube has tons of follow along flows, exercise tutorials, and different positions.
So you can check that out. And then the book is called Movement for Everybody. And so the book is part exercise, part Workbook. It says. Physical exercises to work through and also mental. So there's journaling and there's movement. There's a little reading, a little thinking, and then a little movement in each chapter.
And the aim is not for anyone to just use that. Oh, this is just a book of exercises. No. This is a book of how am I going [00:39:00] to get through this journey of figuring out how to make movement work for me in a way that divests from capitalism, you know, white supremacist ideals and all of that. So that's the vibe.
That's the vibe. So you can get that wherever books are sold or loaned. If you don't have money, that's fine. Get it from the library. The library doesn't have it. That's fine. Request it and tell them they need to have it. That's a thing you can do.
Rosy: Libraries
Marcia: have, yes, and libraries have ebooks and audiobooks.
It is available in audiobook form. I mean, most folks like the pictures for the movement. I also recorded videos to go with all the movements just in case, cover all the bases, so everybody has the learning format they are most successful with.
Rosy: Yeah, that sounds like an amazing resource and I'll make sure links and everything are in the the show notes so you can go check it out.
And also I've mentioned this a couple times, the deconstructing the fitness industrial complex, really [00:40:00] great thought provoking set of essays. And yes, I think it's, it's a great book. I think it's helpful to think about social systems and where we fit in them and how our actions affect change or don't.
And that includes, you know, how we choose to move and who we choose to support and how we relate to our own bodies. ,
Marcia: Absolutely. There's a promo code you could use if you are in the U. S. and you want to order it. If you order it directly from North Atlantic Books, my publisher, you can use the code BODY for 35 percent off on free shipping.
Rosy: So promo code BODY for 35 percent off, free shipping only until December 31st though, so.
Marcia: Yes. Limited time offer. We hate capitalism, but buy now.
Rosy: Listen just because we don't agree with the system doesn't mean that we don't have to pay rent net.
Marcia: Yes, that's correct. Yeah, that's, that's the best I could do for y'all.
[00:41:00] They gave, they gave me four months, four months of a promo code. The cut in the show.
Rosy: So, so take advantage while you can save, save a couple of bucks. Yeah,
Marcia: why not?
Rosy: All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Marcia. Thank you to all of you for listening. Definitely check out Dr. Marcia's stuff. All stuff is in the links below and I will talk with you very, very soon.
Marcia: Yeah. Sounds good. Thanks for having me.
